Nature-Based Therapy, Sensory Needs, and the Power of Outdoor Regulation

Sep 8

🎧 Listen to the full episode on Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music

In Season 2, Episode 3 of The My Outdoorsy Mom Podcast, Julianne welcomes Kim Wilson, a licensed pediatric occupational therapist and founder of Nature’s Path OT based in Colorado. Together, they explore the healing power of nature-based therapy, the importance of regulating the nervous system, and what parents need to know when raising children with sensory, emotional, or motor delays.

What is Nature-Based OT?

Kim breaks down what pediatric OT really is — not just fine motor skills and handwriting, but helping kids function emotionally, socially, and developmentally through meaningful activities (their “occupations”). For young children, that means play, and nature is the ultimate playground.

She explains how shifting her practice from clinical settings to outdoor spaces led to faster progress, happier kids, and more peaceful families.

Trauma-Informed Parenting and the War on Boys

Kim and Julianne dive into the reality that many families—especially those with boys—are facing. From trauma (both big and small) to developmentally inappropriate expectations in school, children are being mislabeled when what they actually need is movement, space, and regulation.

This part of the conversation is deeply emotional and faith-rooted, as Kim passionately advocates for truth-telling, identity-building, and giving our boys the room to be who God created them to be.

OT Isn’t Just for Kids—It’s for the Whole Family

One of the most powerful messages of the episode? OT is just as much about equipping parents as it is about helping children. Kim reminds us that when we understand the why behind our child’s behavior, we parent with more grace, more confidence, and more peace.

You’ll leave this episode with:

Practical tools for regulating your child’s nervous system
A better understanding of sensory needs
Encouragement to seek support without shame
And a renewed appreciation for the healing rhythms of nature

Want the full episode? 🎧 Listen to Episode 19:How Nature-Based OT Can Heal, Regulate, and Empower Your Kids with Kim Wilson of Nature’s Path OT

Julianne Nienberg (00:00)
Welcome to the My Outdoorsy Mom podcast. I'm your host, Julianne Nienberg, mom of three, backyard adventure enthusiast, and your go-to gal for making memories outside with your kids. This is your space to ditch the pressure of perfect and embrace simple, soul-filling time in nature that fits real family life. Each week, we'll talk motherhood, nature play, travel, and entrepreneurship with honest stories, practical tips, and guest conversations that'll feel like chatting with a friend.

Whether you're raising wild little explorers or building a business during nap time, I see you. So grab your coffee, toss some snacks in your bag, and let's make some memories. This is the My Outdoorsy Mom podcast.

Julianne Nienberg (00:38)
Today's guest is Kim Wilson, a licensed occupational therapist and the founder of Nature's Path OT. Through her innovative approach that blends nature-based therapy with sensory and motor development, Kim helps children build confidence, resilience, and stronger nervous systems outside. Whether it's in the forest, at a creek, or climbing a tree, her work is rooted in the belief that nature is the best sensory gym we have.

I'm so excited to dive into this conversation about outdoor therapy, sensory needs, and what it really looks like to support our kids holistically without being stuck indoors or behind a desk. Kim, welcome to the podcast.

Kim Wilson (01:14)
Thank you so much for having me. That was a awesome introduction. Thank you.

Julianne Nienberg (01:17)
well, you know what?

This is such a treat. I feel like we connected over the past year, simply through me admiring your work to the families that you serve and everything that you post. I'm just sitting there going, yes, exactly. This is it. This is it. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how Nature's Path OT came to be?

Kim Wilson (01:24)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, absolutely. So I've been an occupational therapist for 21 years and I started in adult neuro rehab doing spinal cord and brain injury. And neuro is kind of my first love. I love the brain. It's just so fascinating to me. And then I started having my own kids and I shifted to pediatric therapy. And so for the past 18 years, I've been doing pediatric therapy in a number of different settings, clinic-based.

early intervention in the home. ⁓ And most recently, I started taking therapy outdoors. And so how it came to be was when I was working in the early intervention setting, which is zero to three for those listeners who aren't aware of what that is. It's therapy for children zero to three years old. I started getting kids on my caseload and this thought kept reoccurring to me of...

man, I feel like a lot of these developmental gaps would improve if I could just get these kids outside more. Cause at the time I was either seeing them inside in their home or even daycares or school settings. And so then I was like, well, why don't, well, early intervention, can see children in the natural environment of the child. And so you have a lot of flexibility of where you do therapy. So I was like, well, I'm just going to start taking these kids outside. And so I started taking kids outside and early intervention.

And I just started seeing this like wonderful improvement just from changing the environment and getting them outside. And so that is kind of where my passion for getting kids outside be. And I, I'm just naturally an outdoor lover. And so for my own children, ⁓ I was outside all the time with them. And so then I just kind of started doing it with the kids that I was seeing for OT and

Julianne Nienberg (03:19)
.

Kim Wilson (03:29)
Yeah, so that's how Nature's Path OT began. I'm also a mom of six kids of my own. So I, and I homeschool them as well. And so I have this passion for just education and learning and all of that as well. So I kind of blend it all together in my private practice. And ⁓ Nature's Path OT has now been in existence. This August, it'll actually be four years, which is just wild, but I've...

had that business for almost close to four years now, but it's been really fun to see just the fruit of just taking kind of a leap of faith of something I believed in. So, yeah.

Julianne Nienberg (04:06)
Wow. And so, I mean, you had

a pretty robust clinical experience, you know, in a variety of settings before you made the leap to creating

an outdoor-based, like nature-based occupational therapy practice. So for parents who aren't listening, who maybe are just beginning to research OT for their kids, how would you describe nature-based occupational therapy?

Kim Wilson (04:17)
Yes.

Well, I like to just start with describing what OT is because a lot of people don't know what occupational therapy is. They automatically think, occupation, like return to work, or how does that apply to children? And thankfully, I am seeing kind of a shift in a lot of parents understanding what OT is. And I think there is, in general, amongst other professionals, there's kind of this awareness of what OTs bring to the table. So we're getting a lot more referrals from.

know, mental health professionals and schools. And so that's exciting to me because I feel like for so long, we just were kind of this profession of like, nobody knew what we did. But occupation is actually defined as anything that's meaningful in your daily life. And so it's very broad. And so it can look very different across different contexts, you know, adults, across pediatrics. And so for nature-based services,

Julianne Nienberg (04:59)
.

Kim Wilson (05:26)
I basically take those goals of whatever it is for the child, whether it's, you know, they want to be able to participate academically in school, right? Like you're like, how do you address that outdoors? Well, there's a lot of things that need to be in place in order for a child to have success in the learning environment, right? And so I in nature am addressing all those things like attention, executive function.

and I am creating things in the environment that will challenge those developmental gaps for the child in order for them to successfully participate in whatever occupation it is. And those occupations can be very vast in what is important to the child and what's important to the parent. It can be anything from toileting, right? Independence and toileting tasks. can be, like I said, academic skills. It can just be social-emotional regulation, right? Maybe that's interfering with peer relationships, right? That's the occupation of

Julianne Nienberg (05:56)
Mm hmm.

Kim Wilson (06:19)
Being a friend, being able to participate and play

with your peers, like that's important and that falls under occupational therapy. And so in the nature setting, I'm working on those skills in order for those skills to translate in their everyday life so they can have success and function.

Julianne Nienberg (06:40)
Absolutely. I love that you talk about the occupation of the child, right? Because if we really take it down to its simplest meaning, if you look at a child, what is a child's job? Is to learn and to grow and to play.

Kim Wilson (06:53)
Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (06:54)
Right, especially

in early childhood, you know, whether you're sending your child to a preschool or if you're homeschooling them at home, a child's occupation is to play and to learn and to grow. And so I love that you mentioned that because even even in the scope of, you know, this work that I'm doing now, It took me having a child with. sensory challenges.

Kim Wilson (07:04)
Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (07:17)
And those sensory challenges were spilling over into, emotional regulation difficulties. And really it was, I don't want to say it wasn't damaging our relationship. It was, it was making the parent-child relationship really challenging. And as a mom, there's nothing more that I want than to connect with my child and to not be at war with my child.

Kim Wilson (07:23)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (07:39)
⁓ and so there was a season of life. felt like I had read all the books. had done all the things and it didn't occur to me until a friend said, have you tried occupational therapy? And I thought to myself for what I'm like, my kid is exploding at me. I'm like, I feel like I need to learn how to talk to him better. So how was occupational therapy going to help me? So for parents who have, know, that for me was such an eye opener that occupational therapy, that pediatric occupational therapy had such a wide scope.

Kim Wilson (07:43)
Mmm.

Right?

Bye.

Mm-hmm.

Julianne Nienberg (08:08)
of things and just interventions that you could do with children from like a sensory and gross motor, fine motor, ⁓ skill development. Talk to me about, know, what do you see most often and like share some success stories that you have, if you can, about just kids who have had these, you know, sensory issues and gross motor issues and how you were able to work with them outside to help them overcome those challenges.

Kim Wilson (08:22)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love that question and I do want to shift it, but I also want to say something to what you said regarding your dynamics with your son. ⁓ I get emotional about this too of like participation in the family unit is so important when we're talking about what is important to not only the family, but the child, right? So when you have these challenges for the child that is really creating this tension within the family unit,

Julianne Nienberg (08:45)
You want?

Kim Wilson (09:01)
It impacts the parents, it impacts the siblings, it impacts overall daily functioning for the entire family unit. Like sometimes if a child has significant sensory preferences, it impacts where the family is able to go, right? Just getting out of the house, it can be super isolating, right? And so ⁓ I love that you addressed that, because I addressed it in the context of peer relationships, but I truly believe OTs are so gifted in the family unit of how are we going to

Julianne Nienberg (09:09)
Yes.

Kim Wilson (09:30)
⁓ make life easier for this family, right? And not just easier, but also fruitful, right? That you can live an abundant and fruitful

life with your child and it doesn't have to be this tension and this constant ⁓ at war. How you put it is a really beautiful way to put it because that is frequently how parents describe how they're feeling when their child is struggling with something that is impacting the family unit so much.

Julianne Nienberg (09:39)
⁓ huh.

Kim Wilson (09:57)
And so I just

want to address that because it's a huge piece and it's a huge piece that I'm passionate about. That's why I've developed my programs to be highly family involved because it does no good for me to just have the kid in a 60 minute OT session and then just to hand it back to mom and dad and be like, they did great. We did this and it was so fun and so motivating. then, you know, all the while, 24 hours at home with the family is just a war. Right. And so ⁓

Julianne Nienberg (10:16)
So

Kim Wilson (10:25)
OTs are very, very gifted in that and being able to address the family unit. And also that's a piece of why I believe that the nature-based model is so beautiful because it's not only provides regulation for the child, but it provides regulation for the family unit. So I often have moms and siblings outside with me and I love it because they can be swinging on one of the swings I have hung while I'm working on something else. And I know that actually

I'm not only treating the child, but I'm treating the family unit to provide that regulation. So I know that I took a kind of a sidestep in addressing that. And I'll get back to your question, but I did want to address that because I think it's super important.

Julianne Nienberg (11:06)
I love that. Yes. mean, so share with us. you know what? I'm so grateful that one, think a lot of listeners hearing you affirm that so many families come to you with like, with that language that I use, like I just felt like I was at war and no mother wants to feel that tension with their child, right? Every mom wants to connect and every mom wants their child to feel like they're understood and heard.

Kim Wilson (11:23)
No. No.

Julianne Nienberg (11:31)
And so OT was such a gift to us in that season. And I truly believed that it turned our parent child relationship completely. It did a 180 after, you know, it was not only just tools that our OT was teaching my child, but also tools and strategies for me to parent and for me to better understand. And for me also, because I, I do kind of geek out about this kind of stuff.

Kim Wilson (11:31)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Julianne Nienberg (11:54)
But for me to understand physiologically what was happening in his body and in his brain and my child's brain to better understand why they were having reactions or emotions in the way that they were having them, you know, it gave me a better understanding of all of the physiological processes that were happening in my child's body that then led to that explosion or reaction or comment that they said. And it really equipped me just so much better to

Kim Wilson (11:56)
Yes.

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (12:23)
to advocate for my child, to advocate for my child in the school setting and to say, to have a conversation with his teacher and to say, know, these are the things that we worked on during the summer and I just wanna help you feel prepared and not, you know, not be thrown off guard when something happens. So we are just so lucky. had a really great team of like our OT and our teacher was really understanding to, she wanted to come alongside us and to come on board and support.

Kim Wilson (12:25)
Mmm.

Right.

Julianne Nienberg (12:50)
my child in any way that she could. So we were really lucky. But I think so often parents think of OT as a lot of these like fine motor, sometimes gross motor things, but so much of what we worked on was completely social and emotional regulation.

Kim Wilson (13:05)
Yes.

And there is a huge shift. And I think it's just the awareness piece of, well, it's multifactorial. What I was about to say is there's just this huge increase in referrals for social emotional regulation when it comes to OT. I think one ⁓ facet of that is obviously just awareness of what OTs bring to the table with social emotional regulation. And then another side of that is just

There's a lot of other factors that are contributing to challenges with social emotional regulation with our kiddos, right? One of those primary ones is, know, decrease in outdoor play, increase in screen time, like all of these things. So we're seeing these rise in these factors that are actually impacting our kiddos negatively with social emotional regulation. So we're having this increase.

in referrals for kids who need help with social emotional regulation and something that you addressed, which I love. You asked me for a success story, but I was sitting here listening to you and being like, you are the success story when it comes to ⁓ what OT can provide. Everything that you, you said a couple of really key words that I feel like is so vital to what OTs do. You talked about just like ⁓ education and understanding, right? Because what I say to families is,

Julianne Nienberg (14:09)
Yeah.

Kim Wilson (14:27)
I'm not here to fix your child, right? Like if you have this idea that you're gonna drop your kid off to me and I'm just gonna like give them back to you and they're gonna be fixed. Number one, your child doesn't

need to be fixed. They're fearfully and wonderfully made and they're beautiful how they're wired, right? Now, is there some things that we can, tools and strategies, you also used those two terms, which I love to hear that you are equipped with, your child was equipped with, to make how they're wired maybe.

like not as difficult, right? Like maybe we have some strategies now that don't make the day to day as difficult, right? And what I always say is when we don't have understanding, often we have unmet expectations that aren't realistic for the child, right? And then what I say to families is often the primary route of frustration with our children is unmet expectations, right? And so when we have insight and we have better understanding of how our child is wired,

why they're doing the things that they're doing, right? We can have appropriate expectations and therefore we don't have as many frustrations, right? And so then that is what produces the fruit of, you know, a healthier and more fruitful relationship with our children, right? And not this like war, right? Because when we understand someone better, we can offer grace, we can offer patience, and we too...

Julianne Nienberg (15:47)
Yeah.

Kim Wilson (15:49)
we'll have better emotional regulation because we have that understanding and we're not frustrated about it, right? And so, ⁓ yeah, I loved that you said some really key words. And so you must've had a wonderful OT who really walked alongside you guys. And then advocating, I love that you said that too, because that's such an important piece when your kids are in an educational model or educational system. ⁓

Julianne Nienberg (15:55)
Yeah.

Kim Wilson (16:13)
I wish everybody had these tools and strategies. In my ideal world, I would literally go to every school in Colorado Springs before the first day of school and do intensive kind of educational and continuing education. Because again, for the teachers, when they have that understanding, they can meet the child where they're at. And there's a lot less tension within the classroom, right? Yeah.

Julianne Nienberg (16:36)
Yes, I think, you know,

one of the things I heard you say too is, you know, a lot of parents might expect that when their child does OT, they're dropping their child off, they're working on whatever it is they're working on, they go home and things are fixed or things are going to get better.

I want everyone to know when we did OT, felt like my child was doing work and I was doing just as much work to better understand, to better incorporate these things that we practice and to also unlearn, unlearn a lot of things that I had, just kind of the way that I was parenting in the past wasn't going to work or wasn't, there were just things that helped me to address in order to be a better parent, to be a

Kim Wilson (16:52)
Yes.

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (17:21)
more patient to be more gracious, right? To extend more grace to my child now that I knew and understood what was happening in their body and in their brain. And so I wanted to ask you, you you talk a lot about the nervous system. I know that that is like neuro is a big passion of yours. And so, you know, what do you think it is? And I know, I mean, there's there's plenty now there's such a growing body of research now, but talk to us about how time and nature regulates and supports kids, you know,

Kim Wilson (17:23)
Yes.

Right.

Yeah, yeah.

Mmm.

Julianne Nienberg (17:49)
in a way that just simply can't be replicated indoors.

Kim Wilson (17:53)
Yes, I love that question because what's exciting to me now is I feel like I stepped, even before I started my private practice, when I was taking kids outside early on in my early intervention years, I've been an OT now for 21 years and 18 of that has been working with kids. So we're talking like 18 years ago and the research hasn't hadn't emerged yet, like regarding the benefits of nature. And now what's so exciting is

that there's just this plethora of research that supports it. And so that's exciting to me because we talk about in therapy or any profession, we talk about evidence-based practice and it being important, right? But evidence-based practice is both like the literature and the research, right? But it's also your clinical experience, right? And merging those two. And so for so long, I felt like...

I had this clinical experience and just like this gut of like, know this is what, I know this is right. I know I'm seeing it. I'm seeing the benefits. And so it's been really fun to just see like this huge body of evidence now emerging in the research that supports it because now you just have both to be like, I mean, this is why I'm doing it guys. This is, it works, right? And so yeah, it regarding nature, the,

abundance of research suggests, right, is that it's restorative on many levels, right? So it not only brings our nervous system back to an autonomic state, which means like our blood pressure returns to a normal state, our heart rate returns to a normal state. And then there's the attention restoration theory that talks about it actually restores attention. OK, so like I'm a big believer in if your child struggles with attention.

get them outside, get them next to a window. Like I talk about that in the classroom environment. If we have a kiddo who really struggles with attentional priority, you would think it would be counterintuitive to put them next to a window where they could like gaze outside and get distracted. But honestly, it's the exact opposite, right? Like I have been in classrooms where in order to restore attention, they put, you know, the kiddo in like a cubby in the corner, right? And I'm like,

Julianne Nienberg (19:56)
No.

Kim Wilson (20:07)
I get where they're coming from, right? We eliminate distractions, but I'm like, no, no, no, no. Like, get them next to a window if you have a window, right? Like, get them that natural sunlight. And even when they look like they're gazing off outside, it actually is restoring their ability to actually attend to something, right? And so it restores attention. It brings our central nervous systems back to kind of this homeostatic state. And...

Julianne Nienberg (20:17)
.

Kim Wilson (20:34)
The

mental health benefits have long been researched as far as what it does to mood, right? It boosts our mood. And so for me, I just was like, why wouldn't I do this? Why wouldn't I pair all these amazing benefits with working on therapeutic goals with these child? Because it's like, I talk about nature, kind of being my co-therapist of it's doing its thing.

Julianne Nienberg (21:00)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Wilson (21:01)
And I'm kind of

doing my skilled intervention and we are working together as a team to be able to provide the best environment for the child to be able to be successful.

Julianne Nienberg (21:12)
That's so funny that you talk about nature being like your co-teacher, co-partner, because I had another nature-based educator come onto the podcast and she described it as the same way. Like nature is kind of the other teacher in the room. And I thought, what a beautiful thing that is, know, that God designed all of these things to bring us back to this state of rest, right?

Kim Wilson (21:25)
Yes.

Yes! Yes!

Mm-hmm.

Julianne Nienberg (21:35)
come to me all you who are weary and I will bring you rest and that he designs these things and so what as a mom, know, is that when I see my kids, we, my kids go to school outside of the home and they come home and we love our school and they have, you know, traditionally small class sizes and you know, we get, we're very involved with the, with the staff and now I teach there two times a week. ⁓ But, but they come home, you know, and their way of unwinding is simply playing.

Kim Wilson (21:37)
Yes!

love it

funny.

Julianne Nienberg (22:04)
getting outside and for a while there I used to want to front load like their activities in the afternoon and then my daughter my oldest said something to me she said I don't want to be in a rush to go anywhere after school and I said you know what I'm so grateful that you had you know you had the the insight to to voice that to stand up and say like I really and that showed me she values her time outside because what's the first thing she does when she comes home is she just

Kim Wilson (22:09)
Yes.

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (22:32)
opens up our sliding doors and she heads right outside. And she, was just so, it was so eye-opening to me that that's where children find rest. They find reprieve. They find a place to just kind of calm and regulate, right? In a very basic way of saying it, them playing outside is resetting, resetting their nervous systems. And so to hear you say that, it's, mean, you know,

Kim Wilson (22:35)
I love it.

Mhm.

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (22:56)
In motherhood, I know anyone listening when your kids are outside, it almost seems like they're their best selves

Kim Wilson (23:01)
I love that you talked about that that's what they like to do. Cause one of the main things that I talk about with family is often one of the things that comes up frequently is the struggle with homework. Like them feeling like they get a lot of behaviors with homework. often I identify, and this is natural. I get it as a mom, like you.

you just want to knock it out, right? You want to knock it out. You want to get to dinner. You want to get to activities later in the evening. so frequently, frequently what parents are doing is as soon as their kids get home, they're wanting to just knock out their homework. And that's one of the biggest tweaks I make or suggest or advise is no, no, no, no. Like you're making it harder on yourself. Like your child has just been in a highly structured environment all day long. And if you just let them come home and what, what you just said, like,

They just need to relax. They need to be at peace. Let them do whatever. I promise you, if you circle back to that homework after you give them that time, it's not gonna be as much of that tension. It doesn't always eliminate it. I'm not gonna act like it's just this magic pill, but it certainly, more often than not, is very, very helpful.

Julianne Nienberg (24:02)
Right.

That is it's so true because the first year that my oldest was in school. That's what I did. I said, let's get this done and out of the way so we can get the rest of the evening going and it created. It created just that arguments at the table and it was like, ⁓ I really did not. It just turned me into a mom that I didn't like to be. ⁓

Kim Wilson (24:15)
Yes. Yes.

Yeah,

right.

Julianne Nienberg (24:25)
And so

the next year, thankfully I had some wisdom on my side and I said, you know what, the first thing we do, they don't do anything. They come home, they eat, and then they go outside and they play for like at least an hour before we get anything done. ⁓ I wanted to circle back because I know that

Kim Wilson (24:36)
I love it.

Julianne Nienberg (24:41)
You have such advanced training in so many things, and I wanted to read this off to you because you wrote it in your bio and I I'd like for you to walk us through what all of that means and why it's important, why it's important for parents to know. So Kim has advanced training in trauma informed care, reflex integration, brain body integration, neuro rehabilitation, feeding therapy, vision, and soon you'll be pursuing a certification in dynamic movement intervention. So for for the average parent who has no medical background,

Kim Wilson (24:43)
Mm.

Hahaha

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Julianne Nienberg (25:11)
Tell me, what does that mean as a parent coming to you seeking OT services? And why is it important for us to know that you have such a wide range of specializations?

Kim Wilson (25:22)
Okay, I love that question. I'll try to just kind of knock them off so we don't take up the rest of the time with it. got my certification. I'm considered a TBRI practitioner, which is a trauma informed care certification. It stands for trust based relational intervention.

Some might see that and be like, well, my kid hasn't experienced trauma. more often than not, I would challenge you in that. Because a lot of the times, the kids that we have what we call little t's and big t's is kind of what you talk about in the trauma world of like, a big T is your traumas that everybody ⁓ defines as trauma, right? Like, which would be a death in the family. You know, maybe some...

sort of assault, right? Something that is a big T that everybody, no matter what, would define as a trauma. And then your little T's are more not as easily defined by our society, but I try really hard with my families to help them redefined what trauma actually is, right? And more often than not, the kids that come for OT, not only the children, but the families have experienced some level of trauma. And here's why. They are

Julianne Nienberg (26:26)
Hmm.

Kim Wilson (26:30)
⁓ in a constant state of fight or flight because there's that war within their home, right? And then not only that, but they have often experienced a level of trauma from either the medical community or the educational system, right? Because their child is

Julianne Nienberg (26:47)
Hmm.

Kim Wilson (26:47)
the kid who's constantly getting in trouble, right? Or their child, they have labeled their child as something that's dysfunctional with them, right? That is a trauma, right? Nobody ever wants to experience.

the phone call after phone call after phone call of their kid getting in trouble at the school or the phone call about they're not passing their reading assessment, right? And it's just this constant bombardment to these families of keeping their nervous system in this fight or flight, right? And so, and

then these kids, obviously they're feeling that effect as well, right? Whether it's in school, they're constantly getting in trouble, whether, and a lot of medical traumas, right? I define them as traumas.

a lot of times it's medical procedures or medical necessities that these kids have to go through. I'm not saying that it was an unwanted thing. They had to go through it, but it still is defined as trauma, right? When a child has a chronic medical condition or a chronic diagnosis that they are having to repeatedly go through medical procedures, those are all traumas. so, ⁓ and then also beyond that, I also work with children in the foster care system. So that's a lot of those children have, have experienced very

Julianne Nienberg (27:47)
you

Kim Wilson (27:56)
large T's, right? And in my book, small T's, big T's, they're all trauma, right? And so that's important. I feel like that has just brought such a an amazing treatment lens to my OT practice of how you interact in a trust based way with these children and developing that rapport. Reflex integration.

Julianne Nienberg (28:13)
So.

Kim Wilson (28:22)
There's a whole body of research that people can look up. It's fascinating if you've never looked into it. Our primitive reflexes are reflexes that were are are beautifully designed in utero and their first purpose is safety and survival, right? But

then as they integrate within this first year of life, this is I'm I'm doing a very, very brief cliff nose version of this, but

As they integrate, they serve a developmental purpose for our kids. And so there's actually an increasing body of literature out there that's showing that a lot of kids with learning disabilities have unintegrated primitive reflexes. And so it's a very valuable skill set that I bring to the table that I have found a really, really beneficial in helping these kids who are really struggling in school.

Julianne Nienberg (28:48)
⁓ huh.

Mm.

Kim Wilson (29:10)
My vision is such a vital portion of learning. And so I actually received my vision training on the adult neuro side. And I just realized the impact of our visual system on everything that we do. Often people are like, I'm like a, I'm a tactile learner or I'm a visual learner. And we make this like distinction between the two, but in all honesty, we are all visual learners. Like.

Julianne Nienberg (29:31)
.

Kim Wilson (29:35)
80 to 90 percent of what we intake in our environment if we don't have some sort of significant visual impairment, right? We all primarily learn through our visual system. And so this is a system that often gets overlooked with our kids. And so I do screenings for that. I incorporate it into my treatment session.

Feeding therapy is often an occupation that a lot of our sensory kids really struggle with. And so I'm trained in the SOS approach to feeding, which is a sensory approach to feeding of how we tackle some of these sensory aversions with feeding. And you're probably sitting there thinking, well, how do you incorporate this with nature? But I'm a big believer that we can actually take a lot of these clinical models and clinical advanced training and just pair it with nature. And we can do feeding outside of nature because again,

We are ⁓ experiencing the benefits that nature is bringing to the table while also incorporating these kind of more, I would say like, what more would be defined as like your clinical advanced trainings, right? But I'm a believer you can bring all these things outside.

Julianne Nienberg (30:42)
Absolutely. Well, and I thank you for going through all of that because I think, you know, for parents again who are listening and are just thinking to themselves like,

There is something going on in my child and I don't know what bucket this is in. And I feel like sometimes those buckets you don't know about them until someone comes alongside you and tells you, hey, I think you would benefit from this. And so for you to go through all of that and that just shows people what a wide breadth of knowledge and clinical expertise OTs have everything from feeding to sensory to these reflex integrations. You know, I had a kid that started walking at 10 months, only crawled for one month and I had no idea.

Kim Wilson (30:52)
Yes.

Yes.

Hmm.

Yes, yes.

Julianne Nienberg (31:19)
that crawling

would be so important because this was my second child. I thought, great, I don't have to bend over anymore to help them try to walk. I don't have to bend over anymore to pick them up. But really crawling is a very important developmental milestone. And I didn't know that until years, years later, until it started showing up in other ways. So that's when you're talking about that reflex integration and primitive reflexes.

Kim Wilson (31:24)
Right? Right!

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, AT &R. Yes,

absolutely. And I would argue that crawling is actually a vital thing to do throughout the lifespan. So I frequently talk about that cross-crawl pattern. And even as adults, how good it is for us to get down and do kind of a cross-crawl crawling pattern if you're climbing a tree, or because we just don't do it anymore, right? And it's so, so important for.

our brains and our central nervous system to give ourselves that kind of input. And I do, I do really love, I, know I'm biased because I am an OT, but I'm constantly just telling everybody, everybody should be an OT because we really do have a very large scope of practice and there's so much you can do with it. And there's so much we bring to the table because we offer such a holistic lens to human development. So.

we understand that like no system operates independently, right? There's so many factors that are impacting our kids, right? And so you have to look at them through a very holistic lens and try to figure out what is operating that's preventing them from successfully participating in anything that they wanna be able to participate in. And so, yeah, I just think that it's so important to talk about as far as what OTs bring to the table. ⁓

And what I say to parents, you addressed it, is if you get to a point where there's this like feeling in your gut, like something is not right or something is preventing them from doing X, Y, Z, I just can't figure it out, that is your motivator to pursue skilled therapy services. Because what I say, parents will ask me like, well, when is it appropriate to pursue skilled therapy services? And I always say like, if you feel like it's outside your wheelhouse,

Julianne Nienberg (33:19)
Hmm.

Kim Wilson (33:30)
pursue

skill to therapy. you, cause there's some people like yourself, like you can self educate, you can read all the books. And then at the end of the day, you could still feel like I just, I'm not putting the puzzle pieces together. And that's what I say about OTs is like we're wayfinders and we, we try to figure out how the puzzle pieces fit together. And oftentimes an evaluation is one of the most beneficial things to the parent because it helps them bring the pieces together. They're like, ⁓

Julianne Nienberg (33:44)
Okay.

Kim Wilson (33:58)
that's why they do XYZ or that's why they're struggling with XYZ. And so there's sometimes when I get a parent, you know, probably similar to you, where you, they're very self-educated and they just need that person to come alongside them and help put the puzzle pieces together and give clarity. And it might not even be a long road of therapy services. Sometimes it might just be parent coaching of like home programming of like you.

Julianne Nienberg (34:13)
Okay.

Kim Wilson (34:21)
you've done so much education on your own and like here's the tools, here's a home program, you

can run with it. And so it can, even just the evaluation piece can be very, very enlightening and very helpful to families.

Julianne Nienberg (34:34)
And I think what I hear you saying, and especially when you said that OTs are like the wayfinders, right? I love that every time I've worked with someone in skilled therapies, they have been so open to working as a team with other providers. So now I have a child that's in speech therapy. Well, my speech therapist was open to connecting with our holistic airway orthodontist to address.

Kim Wilson (34:41)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (34:59)
you know, a tongue tie and things like that. And I thought this is the way it should be. And I think so often parents get discouraged because they've gone to a different provider and they haven't been able to get answers. And so they're told to go to a different provider and no one's talking to each other. And so this holistic model and holistic approach that I think OTs are, it's part of your.

Kim Wilson (35:12)
Yes.

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (35:22)
It's part of your profession. It's part of, you know, what's kind of embedded into your work is this idea of working holistically and looking at looking at the child or adult and saying this is not just a one lens way to treat the, you know, your patient, but it's you have, we have to start looking outside and really getting others involved. ⁓ and that might look like the OT coming to talk to teachers or to educators, or that might look like an OT talking with another therapist.

Kim Wilson (35:30)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (35:51)
And I just love how your expertise lends itself to others. that way can really, everyone can help and serve the child. We all want our children to thrive and to grow and to feel understood and to feel seen. And I want to kind of make this leap to something I heard you say earlier, the families and the kids who experienced these mini or small teas, the small traumas. And one of the things I heard you say,

Kim Wilson (36:02)
Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (36:18)
was children who are labeled dysfunctional or disruptive in the classroom. And I know we talked about this earlier. You had some Instagram stories earlier this year that just lit a fire in a lot of folks about what you believe. I think you described it as almost like a spiritual war against boys in the education system. And I read it and I got fired up and I got teared up. actually remember it vividly to this day. was reading through your stories. thought...

Kim Wilson (36:37)
Mm-hmm.

Julianne Nienberg (36:46)
my gosh, I'm like Kim is going there. She's going there and I'm fired up about it. I feel the exact same way. You know, in our school setting, we're very fortunate. We I love our school, but just I think as a whole and I don't want to generalize, but I think you touched on it and I screenshotted some of the slides. Can I read them because I just I want families and moms to hear this and you said. I believe with my whole heart that the boy and education system topic is a spiritual issue.

Kim Wilson (36:48)
Hahaha

Yes. ⁓

100%, yeah.

Julianne Nienberg (37:15)
It falls under what I would call the war on masculinity. What better way to degrade and trample down masculinity than at a young age begin to target the way in which boys were naturally designed and wired and label it dysfunctional. I am standing in the gap and saying enough is enough. And you went on to say, stop demanding developmentally inappropriate expectations and I guarantee you will see their brilliance shine.

more blood flow through the cerebellum than girls. And you went on and of course you have to back it up, right? Cause there's people that are going to ask you for the study. So then you, you, you included the link to the neuro. It's a, it's a study in neuro image. I think it was published either in 2009 or 2011. So it's a respected medical journal. And you talked about how just boys are designed uniquely, right? They are set apart from, from girls, the way that they learn the way that they.

Kim Wilson (37:47)
Yes.

Yeah.

Julianne Nienberg (38:09)
⁓ learn through movement. And we had a teacher at our school who I loved hearing him say this, but he, he went on to echo the same sentiments. Boys are experiential learners. You know, I read another book, ⁓ David Thomas, talks about boys are experiential learners. They need to learn through movement. They focus better. And so can you walk us through your heart behind those story series and why you think so many people got just fired up along with you?

Kim Wilson (38:20)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (38:39)
over it.

Kim Wilson (38:40)
Yeah, ⁓ it was overwhelming to say the least because I did, I am known for, I struggle with the social media world and showing up in it just because ⁓ number one time, like just time in general, having the time for it. But then also I have been known to, it takes kind of me to be in this space of being fired up to just like,

post something or just because it's not, it doesn't come very naturally for me, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And so that was a moment where I had, yeah, I was, I call it a righteous anger. Like I had in my clinical experience, again, I just,

Julianne Nienberg (39:12)
Okay.

Kim Wilson (39:28)
there is this trend and I see it over and over and over and over again. And I had just, I had literally just gotten another referral for a little boy.

Julianne Nienberg (39:36)
.

Kim Wilson (39:39)
who matched the same profile, like, of all of these boys that I'm talking about. And I just couldn't hold it any longer. And then, of course, know, Jenny, who has a huge platform, ⁓ posted on hers. And it was overwhelming in the sense of, how many moms, how many other OTs,

how many teachers, messaged me. And just, wasn't just a message that I had a righteous anger about. Like, it resonated with so many people, and that's why.

When you were reading it, I was getting a little

Julianne Nienberg (40:09)
you

Kim Wilson (40:10)
emotional about it because I feel so passionate about it and I feel these boys, they just have, they have my heart and I just wish things weren't so hard for them and how we have constructed our educational systems and how we have constructed our society. And so it's, it is encouraging to me to hear you talk so highly and so kindly about your school and what they're doing ⁓ because I wish all schools

were there, but they're not. And unfortunately, I'm on the other side of it where I'm receiving these boys who are being labeled dysfunctional. And I'm like, hold up, hold up guys. Like, is this a dysfunction of the child or is this a dysfunction of the environment? And ⁓ I feel like I'm saying that over and over and over again. And I won't get into it here. You can look up the research yourself, but the...

Julianne Nienberg (40:44)
.

Kim Wilson (41:02)
you know, the amount of boys that we are medicating in today's

eight day and age is quite honestly just, it's sickening. It literally makes me sick to my stomach. ⁓ And I am not, let me be clear. Let me be very clear for all the listeners out there. I am not anti-modern medicine. I am a very holistic practitioner, but there is a time and a place for medicine. And there is a time and a place for when a child's

you know, need some sort of medication. But I am a firm believer that that is not our first solution. Like I want to exhaust all other avenues before we go down that road. And I've had so many referrals from parents who are in tears because it has been suggested by the school system that they medicate their boy because of his attentional challenges. And it just is wild to me that

that is the first solution that is suggested.

Julianne Nienberg (42:07)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Wilson (42:00)
and what's funny is I did include those research articles because I know how that's how social media works. I knew there was going to be the haters. I knew there was going to be the people of like showing me the evidence. And quite honestly, I had a of a ⁓ moral struggle in that of feeling like I had to, to

Julianne Nienberg (42:20)
Mm

hmm.

Kim Wilson (42:20)
to show the people or to show, but there was a moral struggle in me because quite honestly, I am at a point in my career where, remember how I told you about like evidence-based practice is not only the literature, but it's clinical experience. And there was a side of me that was like, I don't have to show you the research. I can tell you my clinical experience. Like, let me show you profile after profile after profile of these boys. And...

They all

are the same profile. They're amazingly brilliant. They're amazingly creative. They think outside the box. Do they have short attention spans? Yes, they do. But also the environment that they're in is making those short attention spans look dramatically more challenging than what they need to be.

Julianne Nienberg (42:51)
.

Kim Wilson (43:07)
Anyways, they all have a very similar profile and I am

not blind to this. I'm not blind to this when I've been doing this for 18 years with pediatrics that like these boys are being labeled dysfunctional at such a young age. And to me, I am, I'm a believer. I believe these children are fearfully and wonderfully made by the Lord and I get emotional about it because I feel like

So much of what I'm doing is like speaking identity into these boys again that has just been tried to stripped from them. Because unfortunately, especially in K through three, there is just this overwhelming focus on skills that there is such a wide range of development within that K through three. And I say all the time to families,

Julianne Nienberg (43:43)
Mm hmm.

Kim Wilson (44:06)
One of the most important decisions you can make as a parent is the environment that you put your child in in K through three,

because it can be so devastating to their love of learning. It can be so devastating to their confidence. And again, let me be very clear. I am a believer in developing grit. I'm a believer in our children. We want to equip our children with having all the skills to be able to operate in different environments.

Julianne Nienberg (44:12)
Yeah.

Kim Wilson (44:32)
But hear me clearly in K through three, I really believe parents out there, you the single most impactful

decision on your child is the environment you choose to put them in in K through three, because it will impact them long-term regarding their confidence, regarding their identity, regarding their love for learning. And there is such a wide span of development within that K through three.

Julianne Nienberg (44:49)
Thank

Kim Wilson (44:59)
that you have to give them time. You have to give them time to be able to develop and figure out how they learn, how you can support them

before somebody is defining it as dysfunctional. So that we could probably do a whole podcast just on the war on boys because it is, I do believe it's a spiritual topic of like what better way to trample down our boys than at a very young age.

Julianne Nienberg (45:14)
⁓ yes. ⁓

Kim Wilson (45:26)
try to define who they are, define who their identity is as dysfunctional, right? There is no better way than to

keep them from doing all the amazing things that they were divinely created to do than to label them as dysfunctional when they're that young. And so I do think it's a spiritual issue and I...

I'm trying my hardest to do my part in my little corner of the world to speak out against it and to fight for it and to just support these parents and also taking up their armor of advocating and supporting their children.

Julianne Nienberg (46:07)
First of all, can I just say how lucky are those families and those children that get to work with you when they have probably, know, at least in my experience, I came to OT with just, I felt like I had exhausted everything. And I also felt like I was getting, you know, just feedback and it was wisdom. It was given lovingly in knowing that, you know,

Kim Wilson (46:30)
Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (46:31)
that another extra year for my child would definitely do them great service. But it was also like I was just getting, every week it was something new that I was getting feedback on. And it was always given in a loving and gracious way, which I'm so grateful for. as a parent, it feels like you can only take so much beating up. it feels like as a parent, it feels like it's a direct reflection.

Kim Wilson (46:45)
Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (46:55)
on you and your parenting and your ability to communicate or discipline your child or rear your child. And so during that time, know, as I was learning all these things about my child, it was to your point, and I'm getting back to it, but for you to speak truth into these children, to remind them who made them, how they were, you know, just made in the image of God and that, the world will throw labels at our children all day long. The world wants to

Kim Wilson (46:58)
Yes. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (47:24)
Like you said, if there is a war on young men, on boys, and as a parent, know, you just get, sometimes you just throw your hands up. It feels so frustrating. And I think a lot of parents who are listening and identify with that or have had a point in their parenthood where you're just, you come to a professional like yourself and you say, I've tried everything. miss it, or I'm missing something. How can you help me? Or.

Kim Wilson (47:28)
Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Julianne Nienberg (47:50)
there's something in my gut that tells me that there is something else that I cannot fix as a parent, right? And as a parent, sometimes you want to just be able to fix everything. And I love, you know, if you've ever watched any of Kim's stories, and it made me, it made me emotional too. If you've ever watched any of Kim's content, you know, she is a believer of grit, of developing strong, you know, good moral character in kids. And so I completely back you up with that. I mean,

Kim Wilson (47:55)
Yes.

You sure?

Julianne Nienberg (48:16)
You know, I'm a mom of two boys. And so I talk a lot about, you know, my one child that we had such a relationship with, just not where it was because I couldn't understand who my child was and how could I help them? You know, I've heard it described as, you know, my child needed like a backdoor strategy instead of a lot of these front door strategies that worked with number one and number three, you know, just weren't.

Kim Wilson (48:28)
Bye!

Julianne Nienberg (48:44)
doing anything for this child. And so much of the work that, you know, alongside OT was just speaking truth into my child and to reminding them of who they are and who they were made in the image of and saying, and affirming them, you know, because we started running into it. I started learning all of these things were kind of rooted in anxiety and realizing that anxiety looks different in a child than it did for me, right?

Kim Wilson (48:45)
Right.

Right?

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (49:13)
Or sometimes maybe that's how I felt really in that child. That's how I might've been as a child. But as an adult, I just think in my head, okay, when I'm anxious, I worry, I'm this, I'm like kind of very all over the place. And for my child, it was presenting in a different way. And so kind of helping my child to develop this lexicon of just ⁓ describing their emotions, you know?

Kim Wilson (49:13)
Yes.

haha

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Julianne Nienberg (49:37)
of naming their emotions. That was a big part of our OT is helping them describe the naming their emotions and also saying, you know, do you feel like you have butterflies in your stomach? Or does your, do your legs feel like pins and needles? Well, I discovered in one of my children that, you know, as we were going through all of this, it's kind of this fight or flight, right? Reaction inside of them. And what I was finding was that when my child was stuck in fight mode, they were

Kim Wilson (49:41)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yes. Yep.

Julianne Nienberg (50:02)
acting in a way that just was unrecognizable was just having these explosions. And I didn't think in my mind to correlate it to what their body was feeling. And so they were having these explosions verbally, emotionally. And it took it took months before I realized what does your body feel dear? Does your legs? Because, you know, something scary happened or like we were on a bike ride with my child.

Kim Wilson (50:05)
Right.

Julianne Nienberg (50:25)
And it was a one-on-one bike ride. And I thought, great, I'm filling my child's cup. I'm getting exercise out there. We're outside. We're both doing something that we love. And a car came around a corner really fast and it scared me and it scared my child. And we went on biking for a little while and without like, you know, revealing too much. But my child said something to me that just took me back. Like we were having such a great time and they said something really snarky and mean. And I thought, I thought to myself, what the heck? Like we were just having a great time. I was filling my child's cup.

Kim Wilson (50:28)
Thank

Yeah!

Julianne Nienberg (50:55)
And then it took me biking up a little bit more and I stopped and I said, you know what, bud? Did that car scare you? Did that car make your body have pins and needles? And they said, yeah. And I said, your body was scared. So in my mind, I thought his body went to fight mode or flight mode, whichever one of them, you know? And in doing that, it caused him to lash out emotionally in a way.

Kim Wilson (51:12)
Yep. Whichever. Something.

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (51:20)
because he is, you we're helping to develop his emotional vocabulary. And so that's when I started to the pieces of the puzzle together. It's like, there is so much going on in this brain and body connection. it is my job, know, as fired up as you are about boys, it's my job as a parent to do the work alongside them, to help bridge these gaps and connections.

Kim Wilson (51:31)
Yes!

Yes, and I-

Yes, and I commend you so, so much for the work that you've done. I mean, it's so commendable, it's so admirable as another mom, just watching your desire to, I just love everything about your brand and what you're doing and that it was intentional, right? It was intentional parenting and some of the things that you started doing about getting your kids outside. And I love that you said.

brain-body connection. I've listened to that my bio as well of advanced training and because it is so, so important that brain-body connection for our kids. And not only I'm big on, ⁓ yes, identifying that emotion, but then what do we do with it, right? It's not enough to, I'm a believer in talk therapy too, but I also believe that we have to equip our kids of,

Julianne Nienberg (52:27)
Yeah.

Kim Wilson (52:36)
not only identifying the emotion, not only talking about the emotion, but now what are we doing with our bodies about the emotion?

Because it not only empowers our kids that they're not a victim of their emotions, that they can do something about it. There's healthy ways to move our bodies in order to bring ourself back to a state of regulation. There's healthy strategies to incorporate in order to...

to address those emotions, right? And so I'm a believer in that too, that brain body connection of like, we're not operating just here and we're not just talking about it, but we're also doing something with our bodies. I talk about too, like with your kids, I have found something that's really helpful ⁓ when they're dealing with big emotions of like, what does that make you wanna do? Like that sometimes is more of a telling question than how are you feeling, right? Because

Say you know your child's feeling something, you want them to identify it, but sometimes they don't have the vocabulary. But if you say, what does that make you want to do? And they say, it makes me want to throw this cup, or it makes me want to cry, or it makes me want to ⁓ hit you, right? And then they're verbalizing the action. It sometimes can be very telling of like, you know, they may be crying. when you say like,

what does it make you want to do? And they say, I want to throw this cup. You thought they were sad. And now you're like, ⁓ that's actually anger or some, another emotion. Right. And so that can be a really helpful strategy of like, not just how are you feeling, but what is,

Julianne Nienberg (54:10)
Mm.

Kim Wilson (54:10)
what does it make you want to do? And so yeah, that brain body connection. So.

Julianne Nienberg (54:16)
I love that. I love that. That's such a great question. I'm going to steal that. I'm going to steal that question now. I want to shift because I know you're a mom of six. You're a mom of six. And I know from following you, you love to spend time outside with your kids. So tell me, how do you and your kids connect? Because what are the age ranges of your kids?

Kim Wilson (54:17)
Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Yes. Yes.

So my youngest is seven and my oldest is 16. they're all kind of stair stepped. Like they're anywhere from 19 months apart to two years apart is my biggest age gap. I really love the season of motherhood I'm in now. Cause I call it the sweet spot of motherhood.

I still have a seven year old, so I still am doing kind of like younger motherhood things with him, but I'm also not in the trenches of like diapers and breastfeeding and all the things. I have a wide range of development and now I'm kind of entering into, you know, the teen years with some teenagers, which has been equally as fun and different. it's...

I'm learning a whole other season of motherhood and a whole other season of child development, even entering into those teen years. So, yeah.

Julianne Nienberg (55:22)
Hmm

That's awesome. How do you guys like to spend time outside together as a family?

Kim Wilson (55:30)
Yeah, so we've always been kind of a really outdoorsy family. So we camp a lot, we ⁓ ski in the winter time, ski slash snowboard. Some of us snowboard, some of us ski. ⁓ We love hiking. We love just kind of playing outside. We all love games. We love outdoor games. So we love just playing, know, cornhole and crossnet and can jam and all the outdoorsy games. And then...

My husband and the boys, they're big ⁓ hunters and outdoorsmen. So they do all of that outside kind of like wilderness type skill stuff. So in general, we're a real big outdoorsy family.

Julianne Nienberg (56:10)
And it sounds like you're busy. ⁓ Always doing something. Well, I heard you say, you you're kind of entering this season of motherhood, where, you know, you're not you don't have diapers, you don't have, you know, you prep.

Kim Wilson (56:13)
Yes, yes, for sure. Trying to do all the hobbies too, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Julianne Nienberg (56:26)
don't have a

stroller anymore, what encouragement would you give to those mothers who are listening, who are wanting to get their kids outside, but they're feeling in the trenches, or maybe they're struggling because they have a child who is needing some extra therapy or intervention, what encouragement would you give them?

Kim Wilson (56:33)
Yeah.

I think the biggest piece of encouragement is not feeling like you have to plan anything outside and just go outside. And also, I'm a believer in attainable goals. So when you make something not realistic for somebody, they're not gonna do it, right? Like if it's not, that's how I feel with home programming and that's how I feel with getting families outside.

you have to start small. Like if you've never read Atomic Habits, I highly, highly encourage you to read it because it talks about like if you, number one, changing your identity of who you are. Like if you, if you're wanting to work out or you're wanting to start running, like you have to start defining yourself as a runner, right? Not someone who has been sedentary their whole life and is trying to be a runner, but I am a runner. And then you, you just set your running shoes out by your bed.

that's your first step, right? And I feel like that with outdoor time, especially with little ones, you, I've talked to many people, cause people have asked me about like skiing with my kids of like, how did you do that? And I was like, number one, remember how I talked about like the key to frustration is unmet expectations. You have to have realistic expectations. And I'm a believer about most outdoor activities. That's, that is the case with your kids, like with hiking, like.

Julianne Nienberg (57:39)
.

Kim Wilson (58:00)
I wasn't doing three mile

hikes with, you know, my one year old when I just had a one, right? That's not realistic. And number one, they're going to grow up to hate hiking because mom made them go on five, seven mile hikes. Right. And so with, you know, with skiing that we started out, we did, we do like one or two, and then we go have a hot chocolate in the lounge and, or in the lodge and make it fun. Right. And not pushing your child to the capacity that you have for your outdoor expectations, but rather again, like anything.

like we talk about with learning, developing a love for the outdoors with your kids starts with just appreciating the outdoors and not making it like a begrudging experience of like just try five minutes. Like open your front door, sit outside. And that's where you start, right? And so that would probably be my biggest piece of advice. And then another piece of advice is ditch the comparison game.

Like don't don't look at the mom who is doing the five mile hikes with her kids

and be like, well, I'm not an outdoorsy mom. I can't get outside like that with my kids. Like, no, you can you can appreciate and value outdoor time with your kids by just sitting outside with them. And so that would be another piece of advice. And then the third piece of advice is finding people who have those same values of like it makes it a lot easier to get outside or go do something outside if you have somebody alongside of you who

Julianne Nienberg (59:00)
Okay.

Kim Wilson (59:25)
to address like maybe it's harder. Maybe you have a kiddo who's a runner or maybe you have a kiddo who has challenges with sensory experiences outside. Find someone who who maybe they don't have to have necessarily an understanding, but they have to have a willingness to understand and hear you and find that person to do it with you. So they can be your extra set of eyes, right? That's, I feel like that's a lot of what I do in OT too with helping families get outside of, I talk about a little boy had in.

Montana and we treated right by the Missouri River and his mom would never go outside because he did have a diagnosis of autism and he was a fleer and it was terrifying for her, right? But like when I'm there, now we have both eyes on him and we have lots of hands to be able to intervene and so that would be the other piece of advice I would give.

Julianne Nienberg (1:00:14)
that's beautiful. Well, before we wrap up, kind of going alongside what you, you know, we're talking about just now. I close every episode with an outdoorsy challenge for our listeners for the week. And it's something simple that they can do to get outside with their kids this upcoming week. What's one idea you'd love to leave with parents?

Kim Wilson (1:00:31)
I talked about how I love games. I think that playful engagement, I'm big on playful engagement. So this would be my challenge to parents of it's a lot easier to get your kids outside when they see you enjoying the outdoors. so playful engagement means that we are playing with our kids. It doesn't mean you have to come up with something extravagant, but.

Julianne Nienberg (1:00:37)
Hmm.

Kim Wilson (1:00:55)
and you don't have to reinvent the wheel. There's already tons of fun games, like I said, cornhole or cross net. do a game, a water balloon toss, like something super simple that playfully engages your child in the outdoors. I would say that would be my challenge this week or whenever somebody's listening of like choose one game of playful engagement with your child to just do outside.

Julianne Nienberg (1:01:19)
your outdoorsy challenge for the week is to play a game with your child. Kim, thank you so much for coming on our podcast today. Our conversation was so enlightening and so encouraging. And I know that the listeners
Kim Wilson (1:01:23)
Yes.
Julianne Nienberg (1:01:31)
who are listening to you and watching your content are feeling encouraged and inspired to just connect with their kids and also probably more educated now that they know a lot more about occupational therapy. So thank you so much for coming on today.

Kim Wilson (1:01:43)
Thank you so much for having me. It was such a joy and such a blessing just to connect with you over the screen. So thank you for having me.

Julianne Nienberg (1:01:51)
Thanks so much for spending part of your day with me. I hope this episode left you feeling encouraged and inspired to get outside and enjoy nature wherever your feet are. If you loved what you heard, it would mean the world to me if you tap those five stars or leave a quick review. It helps other outdoorsy minded moms find the show and grow the sweet little community. And if you're looking for more ways to simplify, slow down, and connect through nature, you can find me over on Instagram at myoutdoorsymom, read the blog at myoutdoorsymom.com, or explore all my digital resources and seasonal guides in the shop.
Everything's linked right there in the show notes. Until next time, take a deep breath, step outside, and I'll meet you back here next week.